The senior Shas member retiring from the Knesset: "We have harmed the resilience of Israeli society with our own hands"

After 24 years, and at a timing that says much about the state of the political system, MK Yaakov Margi is retiring from political life. In an interview with the "Game of Chairs" podcast from "HaYom," he talks about the decision, the polarization, and the shattered expectation for the sector to be there for the people of Israel, including in the IDF.

After you filled a series of roles in the political system, from CEO of Shas, through Minister of Religious Services and Minister of Welfare, and in the Knesset, among others, as Chairman of the Education Committee and Deputy Speaker of the Knesset, you are saying enough.

"First, the seniority. Almost twenty-four years, I did almost all the roles possible. Second - I did not get to take my sons out of school, I don't want that to happen with the grandchildren too," he begins with the personal impact of politics on his life. "And yes, the last Knessets also pushed to make such a decision now. There is no substantive discussion. A person can get up today, say this, tomorrow say that. Now the public sees, the public hears. I could not be a partner to the great robbery and theft that we are robbing and stealing from Israeli society."

What do you mean by the words 'theft' and 'robbery'?

"To say things that do not touch the truth, that harm social resilience. After all, I don't have the option to choose another Knesset from the shelf. I have one government, one Knesset, one Supreme Court. And when the public, which does not know the fine print, does not really know the reality, hears from morning to night that they robbed them, that they are harming their interests, that they are doing everything so that they will be harmed by those same public representatives they sent, and that is not correct, that is not the truth.

I felt that I, especially in the last Knesset, was a partner to this robbery. We harmed with our own hands, the resilience, the strength of Israeli society. Suppose a person sits in front of the screen and wants to see what is happening in the legislature, and how they are really taking care of the next generations, and sees there a group, which is portrayed as a group of bloodsuckers, vampires, who transfer billions in two minutes from here to there - and that is not true."

So this is criticism of the media, which portrays you like this?

"I say, even if the media is not doing its part, I as a legislator am responsible for the visibility. One day I couldn't hold back as Deputy Speaker. Yair Lapid got up and said: 'Yesterday at this time they transferred 17 billion NIS in one moment.' And it is a technical procedure, but a respectable person stands in the Knesset and says: 'Yesterday they stole from you.' I don't expect the citizen to know everything. I do expect a legislator who sits in a discussion in a committee, and then mediates it to the citizen, to be a little decent and say 'this is not to my taste.' While I work for all the citizens in the Ministry of Welfare, they hear that they pay taxes and the Haredim enjoy. By the way, if I regret anything, it is that I will not complete another term in this important ministry."

And were there no such accusations in previous Knessets you sat in?

"No. You can hear a sharp argument. I sat as Chairman of the Education Committee. Tamar Zandberg would come herself persistently to the committee, sit and oppose all the things that are sacred to me in terms of my scale of values, and throw hard things. I never disturbed her. I let her speak. After that I let him speak and the other. What an intellectual experience. In the end, you present to the Israeli citizen a picture and he will examine for himself, he will decide. Today there is no such thing.

I miss figures like Yossi Sarid, he and I are a huge distance. He spews venom at everything that is dear to me. But to see his humor and to see the style, the form in which he argues. Avrum Burg. I miss this style."

As they say in Moroccan 'a'hasra'.

"Yes. Ya'hasra. And above all I miss Rabbi Ovadia. When he appointed me CEO, he sat me on the bed together with him, I was ashamed, I was afraid to sit. He said to me 'Sit my son. What are you going to do now?' He said to me 'Now you travel from Dan to Eilat, see what your people of Israel need.' He taught me what a true public messenger is."

And Margi went on his way to help the people of Israel in the Education Committee in the Knesset and not only in the Ministry of Welfare and passed there dramatic decisions from handling parental payments, through seminars for girls and to mandatory history studies of Jews of Eastern communities in the curriculum.

If I add another layer to the timing, is it related to the arguments in Israeli society around Haredi conscription to the IDF?

"Not related, but I will tell you something. A heavy weight sits on my heart on this issue of conscription. I served, my brothers, my two sons serve, one to this day. No one did anything so that this crisis would be solved. I did not hear from those who attacked the Conscription Law with fervor, that they raised in one speech or in one discussion in the committee, why the IDF does not conscript those who do not study. And I also have internal criticism of the Haredi leadership that does not learn a lesson. And I say this with criticism, because after all there was a conscription law, there was an excellent conscription law, passed the Supreme Court, passed everyone. The Haredim returned to the government, went, fixed it and it was disqualified in the Supreme Court."

"We pushed the Haredi society into the hands of the Jerusalem Faction"

Margi touches courageously on the deep problems in the Haredi sector and the leadership and says "The Haredi society is very complex and there is no strong Haredi Torah leadership as there was before. In the Sephardic public, there was Maran Rabbi Ovadia Yosef who knew how to decide and also in the Ashkenazi leadership there were great sages of Israel who knew. Today there is rabbinical leadership, but it is decentralized. Everyone is looking back. What will they say about them. And what happened? We all loathed the Jerusalem Faction. Now we all, when I say all, also we the Haredi leadership, the Haredi Knesset members - we pushed the entire Haredi society into their hands."

Margi continues into the Israeli pain and says on the issue of conscription "This is a bleeding wound. I cry about it. They should have been wise and not right and pass the Edelstein outline. After all, the army would not have succeeded in implementing. And now we did not regulate the status of the yeshiva students. We did not conscript, neither those who do not study nor those who are on the fence. The army did not do anything. I was there in the past when the army wanted. We worked in cooperation with the Ministry of Defense and created tracks and masses were conscripted. I could not walk in the streets of Geula and Bnei Brak. They chased me because I encouraged conscription."

Without going into details, what is your value-based statement on Haredi conscription?

"It is impossible to be a value-based Jew and say it only from the lips out on the issue of equality in the burden, or to visit Tel HaShomer in the rehabilitation wing, or to go to funerals and do nothing. I recognize the value of Torah study. Don't get me wrong. But it does not contradict one another. Even before we get to 'Sifra and Saifra' (book and sword) like Religious Zionism, right now you are needed - come. So they told me to be silent. I didn't speak for a year and it frustrated me. But if they were wrong, a serious mistake, on the contrary. That is exactly how we surrendered to the extremists."

You should have said whoever does not study - will be conscripted.

"They didn't say and therefore I say now the salvation will not come from the Haredi politicians nor from the rabbinical leadership, because objectively they cannot bring it to you. We missed the momentum. The Haredi public is not uniform, there are layers, there are layers that are available that only need the small push."

And you should have led it in Shas because the public that votes for you is partly under the stretcher.

"Agree with you."

And again you aligned with the extreme Ashkenazi Haredi leadership.

"Serious mistake. We should have said it less in public. This legislation should have been led. I look at all of Israel. To my great regret I say this with sadness, I wish it were not true, my assessment is that there is a part of the Ashkenazi Haredi perception that lives the shtetl in Israel. That the supreme interest is the shtetl. For me it is not so. For me, the Torah of Israel, the Land of Israel and the People of Israel, all together. It is one. These are not three separate things."

Was the Basic Law: Torah Study unnecessary?

"For me, there is no need for the Basic Law: Torah Study. There was no need for the Detention Law. One should have gone with the Conscription Law and conscripted those who do not study. Everyone should have done their job. The army should have done too. What, are you waiting for the legislator? You have a conscription law, it is correct for everyone. Start conscripting. Start causing them to see uniforms on the clotheslines in the Haredi streets."

Restoring trust

Following his drawing of lessons from October 7th and the trust that was damaged vis-a-vis the army, Margi says about the failure in leadership, "After the massacre I sat opposite Osnat Peri. Her husband Haim Peri, kidnapped, died in captivity. She is the secretary of Kibbutz Nir Oz. And I say to her, everything you say, is legitimate. I am the sovereign. I am responsible. When you needed me, I was not there."

Does it bother you that Netanyahu did not do it in this way?

"It is his mistake. His mistake. This statement that I said, that came out naturally, gave me a work tool. I could have entered the kibbutzim. I could have entered the hotels, hear the needs, do my work faithfully. And he (Netanyahu) is not the only one responsible."

Responsibility of the media

Is Israel prepared and ready for a Mizrahi prime minister?

"Yes. The Israeli public is prepared, yes."

Do you think a unity government should be established here?

"Yes, but what is a unity government? Is it a manipulation to establish a narrow government that will explode in another year or a unity government that will touch the open issues in Israeli society and reach agreements?"

Do you think the Haredim can be part of the next government?

"If we want a broad government, anyone who defines himself as truly Zionist in this Zionist sense and the good of the country is important to him, and I think that for Haredim the good of the country is important to them. If they want - they will join. I think that the government that will be established should also relate to the needs of the Haredi society. I tell you this honestly. In the field of education, everything is in hindsight. Education for the Haredi society in hindsight. Although they portray that there are many resources and funds, it is not true."

But that is because you are not ready for core studies.

"They invented another issue, listen, in my opinion literacy in the Hebrew language, mathematics and English, these are basic tools for every citizen in the State of Israel and in general. There is no doubt that it needs to be done right. Not in struggles, not in wars, not in bending and not in conditions. I will use this stage, even though it sounds bombastic. I tell you today, whoever can save the situation in this country, it is not politics. It is the heads or the owners of the large media bodies. Only they can lead the change in the people. Everyone needs to understand that we are before an abyss. There is nowhere left to tear this people further."

In conclusion, MK Margi calls, a moment before citizenship, to turn the Haredi society from a burden into a partner. "With the Haredi society, one really needs to talk to it differently. It is no longer Yavne and its sages. The Haredi society is not a handful. If you ask me what I would do today? I would take research on the Haredi society, understand what Israeli society needs and turn it from a burden into an asset."